Remove Turkey from Europe games

Here's my reasoning behind this suggestion:

1. Turkey is a very advantageous country because it is 1) far away from the rest of Europe, 2) has a lot of high population cities (4 without +100 city setting) and therefore many reinforcements, 3) has only one chokepoint which land units can enter through without using transports or going through Russia. Coupled with its low price compared to countries such as France and UK, and its neighborhood of small, easy to capture countries, Turkey quickly becomes a superpower in many Europe games.

2. Turkey isn't really a part of Europe in real life. It may become a part of the EU in the future, but most of Turkey is in Asia. Most European maps exclude Turkey as a part of Europe (including Wikipedia's).

1+

and central russia is in europe in real life but not here ...

I have heard complaints about turkey being overpowered on the europe map in several games and i agree with them. therefore i support this idea

There are three presumptions here: Turkey is in Europe and her cities and capital are a lot closer to Europe than the empty extension to the east. Finally Istanbul is not a the only choke-point into Turkey. Land armies can cross the narrow strait of water north of Izmir and west of Istanbul. Ukraine can also attack Turkey through Russia: South as well.

You are overlooking the fact that Turkey has mediocre income, and all the countries around it do as well. If there is competent players in other areas of the map, they can commonly overpower turkey because they simply have more money and can produce more units during every reinforcement cycle.

Hawk if that was true I wouldn't be seeing Turkey become a major player in almost every Europe game I play in. In Europe games with many players, it tends to end up with UK/Germany/France against Sweden/Ukraine/Turkey, especially Turkey and the UK. I know Turkey has like half the income of the western European countries, but Turkey has the same if not more reinforcements per turn and that can make a difference, especially in games with more starting cash where Turkey can quickly assemble a force to rush several big countries.

Skrevet av Yaddo, 05.02.2011 at 11:05

There are three presumptions here: Turkey is in Europe and her cities and capital are a lot closer to Europe than the empty extension to the east. Finally Istanbul is not a the only choke-point into Turkey. Land armies can cross the narrow strait of water north of Izmir and west of Istanbul. Ukraine can also attack Turkey through Russia: South as well.

It is still essentially one chokepoint if you move your defensive line to cover the northwest area of land by Bulgaria.
Also:

Skrevet av TerraSleet, 05.02.2011 at 05:04

...3) has only one chokepoint which land units can enter through without using transports or going through Russia.

There is a very simple solution here. Play 3 or 5k games. This removes the big players such as Britain/Germany/Turkey from the equation.

Skrevet av Ivan, 18.11.2010 at 13:31

Ukraine and Turkey - I decided to disable one city in each, that should help a bit.

In another thread where people said turkey was overpowered Ivan removed one of its cities. So the problem used to be worse, now, not so bad.

Just deal with it. Every country has its pro´s and con´s. See a player starting as Turkey? Gang up on him. Personally I don´t see Turkey as a problem, almost never see them win the Europe map. Expanding fast in the beginning, yes, but never gets a real hold on western Europe.

Germany or UK will pwn Turkey every time, unless you start the game with more than $10,000. Turkeu just doesnt have the income to support a long war. And their neighboring countries are not much help either. All this is gonna accomplish is making east europe 100% totally useless in europe games.

Again though, what's wrong with moving land units through Russia? It's not like the earth swallows them up as soon as they enter a darkened area of the map. I also don't understand your aversion to transports, given that the rich countries of western Europe can easily afford them.

UK is the best country in Europe, Italy, Germany (Ukraine) and Turkey are quite good also.

If there are 2 countries fighting with eachother in western europe, Turkey will take over europe.If its a 1v1 fight, Turkey will lose.

It really depends on how people fight against eachother.

Skrevet av Yihka, 06.02.2011 at 13:22

UK is the best country in Europe, Italy, Germany (Ukraine) and Turkey are quite good also.

If there are 2 countries fighting with eachother in western europe, Turkey will take over europe.If its a 1v1 fight, Turkey will lose.

It really depends on how people fight against eachother.

I concur,
CYPRUS is the best

Turkey is a strong country in a bad position. The only real money makers by it are Greece and the Ukraine, and people usually pick them anyway. Additionally, they are nowhere near as productive as Germany/France/UK.

A lot of late joiners pick Balkan countries too, which can screw up Turkey. I try to ally them and use them as meat shields, but it doesn't always work.

Turkey will lose momentum unless it can grab Italy and Spain, but they usually have players and unless you do something like backstabbing, they can probably beat you.

Kill Cyprus too, it's hilarious to see Cyprus eat up Turkey and then get killed right away, so eat that little island to the south unless you want to die.

Turkey isnt european.

I think this is a pretty silly topic. Even if Turkey was overpowered (which it isn't) it still shouldn't be removed. I thought we already went over the fact that some countries will be better than others. Lets say we were to remove Turkey. Then what? Remove the next "strongest" country.

Choosing good countries is part of the game. And frankly it's a very important and fun part of the game. Don't ruin it.

Skrevet av Sificvoid, 05.02.2011 at 12:49

Germany or UK will pwn Turkey every time, unless you start the game with more than $10,000. Turkeu just doesnt have the income to support a long war. And their neighboring countries are not much help either. All this is gonna accomplish is making east europe 100% totally useless in europe games.

I can kill Germany or UK as Turkey in games.
Usually I can kill Germany after a little while.
If you know what you are doing, you can get a large victory as Turkey.
I believe that Turkey is a fair country in a Europe game.

Its a fairly poor country. I's fine.

I think europe should be removed from all world games, it is too advantageous, it's cheap and needs no skill to play

Sitat:

Turkey is a democratic, secular, unitary, constitutional republic with an ancient cultural heritage. Turkey has become increasingly integrated with the West through membership in organizations such as the Council of Europe, NATO, OECD, OSCE and the G-20 major economies. Turkey began full membership negotiations with the European Union in 2005, having been an associate member of the European Economic Community since 1963 and having reached a customs union agreement in 1995. Turkey has also fostered close cultural, political, economic and industrial relations with the Middle East, the Turkic states of Central Asia and the African countries through membership in organizations such as the Turkic Council, Joint Administration of Turkic Arts and Culture, Organisation of Islamic Cooperation and the Economic Cooperation Organization. Turkey's location at the crossroads of Europe and Asia makes it a country of significant geostrategic importance. Given its strategic location, large economy and military strength, Turkey is a major regional power.

There we go.

This is not about Turkey being a cultural or geographical part of Europe, but Turkey being a part of the Europe MAP in this game. And Turkey should definitely be removed from the Europe map (not the Europe+ one) since you can simply overpower any other nearby country and in the long run also Western Europe. An answer like "just dont play with 10000 starting funds" is absolutely not adequate for a mod who is supposed to know the game and that the game should be balanced with ANY starting funds or other options.

Well theres a europe scenario without turkey,
but then people tries to cramp into western europe and then greece would still win.

Skrevet av Acquiesce, 07.02.2011 at 21:13

I think this is a pretty silly topic. Even if Turkey was overpowered (which it isn't) it still shouldn't be removed. I thought we already went over the fact that some countries will be better than others. Lets say we were to remove Turkey. Then what? Remove the next "strongest" country.

Choosing good countries is part of the game. And frankly it's a very important and fun part of the game. Don't ruin it.

hahaha so true...

if people want to disable turkey they can now. Just create a scenario and disable it (no offence at the time this threat was published there was no editor).
But I also think it would ruin the game. Without turkey i pursume germany and italy can expand easally into east europe and build up an huge army with its money. Will they be the next countries to be removed?

The map has to stay realistic and it wont be balanced.
I guess you guyes might want to play a balanced map rather than an realistic one.

Skrevet av takeanap_oleon, 25.08.2011 at 13:18

Skrevet av Acquiesce, 07.02.2011 at 21:13

if people want to disable turkey they can now. Just create a scenario and disable it (no offence at the time this threat was published there was no editor).